P4C800-E Deluxe Set-Up

[Josb]

Have a P4C800-E Deluxe, P2.8 800fsb, 2x512 OCZ PC3500 ELDC, Antec True 480, etc., arriving next Monday.

Assuming it starts after assembly, does one flash the BIOS to the latest version before or after loading Win XP and SP1?

I'm more interested in increasing the CPU speed and decreasing memory timings then increasing the FSB and RAM frequency.

I'm confused as to what order should oc items be changed in. Does this look right?

1. CPU speed (5%, 10%, etc., feature?)
2. Memory voltage (2.75?)
2. Memory timings (2,2,2,5,8 if lucky?)
3. RAM frequency (auto?)

Verify and test after any one change?

I've downloaded and read the MB manual and will keep studying it this w/e, but new at this and don't understand what the sequence of events should be, so bear with me and thanks!

[Mikki]

Josb, welcome to BE :wave:

That's a very broad question(s), but I'm sure we'll be able to help out. ;)

Some flash straight away, some (like me) test the board for a while before flashing and then re-run the tests.

Can you tell us why you're more interested in CPU speed than memory timings? If you want better performance, timings rule...;)

I'll let someone else chime in about the oc'ing "sequence of events"....:)

[Hawk]

Joseb, :wave:

First you need to get the board, otherwise you can't OC. . . ;)


Your first step should be to install all you equipment and getting it stable at all the standard settings. . . .

Once you get it there, then the rest is easy. . . .

I would say first to find the max OC on the CPU,
then find the memories cap and you need to decided
which is better. . . .

Let us know when you are setup, then I and everyone else can giude you from there. . . .

[Josb]

Ya, "timings rule" is what I was so poorly trying to describe after reading a review by Dean Nottis on that board. Don't mean to speak for him, but he came to the conclusion that a FSB speed of over 800 is not as hepful in performance as faster timings. Another case of diminishing returns I guess. And his test scores bore that out, so wanted to follow that approach. Sorry if my statement confused you.

I guess what you guys are saying is that a CPU speed oc (say going from 2.8 to 3.x) incorporates setting a faster FSB? The two features are inseperable?

Ya, I agree, assemble the thing and see if I can get it blowing smoke out the right end at stock settings first. Just trying to sort out in advance whatever I could.

The reason I asked about when to flash the bios is, the board may come with the first version (1007) BIOS and some guys couldn't even load windows to it (could have been other reasons for that though). Maybe I'll be lucky and mine will have v1008 on it.

Thanks. Stay close to the phone (uh...I mean your e-mail)!

[Josb]

Well the processor arrived today (amongst some other stuff) and here's the numbers:

P2.8c

Prod code: BX80532PG2800DSL6WJ
MM#: 852320
Batch#: 3312R434
Pack Date: 06/04/03
Version:C30417-003

Any signifigance to any of these?

Thanks.......

[Josb]

Just finished assembling a new computer. P4C800-E Deluxe and 2.8 800fsb.

Everything powered up fine and got into the BIOS set-up. Came with BIOS v8 something. Flashed to the most recent version listed on ASUS site for this board, described as "P4CED10.zip, v1010, 7/23" using AFUDOS utility.

Flash update went fine (or so the screen said), but when I check the in the BIOS set-up now, the version says, "8.00.09, build date 7/21/03, P4CED084". I had expected to see a version # like 1010. Did I do something wrong here? Or is 1010 really an some higher v8?

Second question is I have only one HD. WD80gb, SE. Meant to set it up as my boot drive of course. Connected it to the Promise IDE connector in the lower right of the board, reserving the other two IDE connector higher up for optical drives (though I only have one installed at the moment).

Unfortunately, I have not been able to get the computer to recognize the HD. It does recognize it in the boot up process, but does not show up in the boot priority screen, nor the IDE configuration screen, nor does XP install find it. Have tried changing the configurations of the Promise controller with no luck. The jumper on the HD is set to "single". I am beginning to suspect this Promise IDE connector is only for a RAID set-up? Is what I'm trying to do even possible on this connector or do I have some configuration wrong?

Thanks........

[Hawk]

Joshb,

It should work off the promise, but I would run it off the primary IDE cahnnel on the top of the board if I was you. I don't have any IDE drives to test it off the Promise for you. . .

[Zephyr77]

Joshb,

In the BIOS under the advanced menu, make sure the OnBoard Promise Controller is set to IDE not RAID. If you already have it that way, did you install the Promise controller drivers when you installed Windows? Also, if your drive is ATA133, I would connect it to the Promise Controller.

As far as the BIOS, when checking System Information, mine say's the same thing. It's supposed to "auto update" but doesn't seem to work. When you boot your system, look at the first couple of lines. You should see BIOS Version 1010.

Zeph

[Josb]

Ya, last night I gave up on my approach and connected the HD to the primary IDE and put the optical drive to the secondary IDE.

No, I haven't loaded the Promise drivers. Is that why I get the message somthing like "promise bios not loaded" on power up?

How do I load those drivers? I see the latest version on the ASUS site and have downloaded them, but don't know what to do with them at this point.

Also saw the descrepancies in the BIOS version description, where it is in fact shown as v1010 on other screens.

By the way, using OCZ PC3500 ELDCK 2x512. Just passed 26 loops of MemTest at 2-2-3-5-8, vdimm 2.75. Will try a little tighter tonight. So far though, this is looking pretty good.:-)

Thanks for keeping a watchful eye on me guys. I can use all the help I can get!

[Zephyr77]

Joshb,

Unzip the Fastrak drivers you downloaded and copy them to a floppy. Normally, at the very beginning of Windows set up, you would press the F6 key to load third party drivers. You would then insert the floppy and let Windows load the drivers.

Since you've already installed the OS, does Device Manager show the dreaded yellow exclamation mark for the Fastrak Controller? If not, did you check the setting in the BIOS to make sure it's set to IDE instead of RAID?

If the controller is listed in Device Manager, right click it and select Update Driver. Browse to the floppy and then to the Windows XP folder and select the driver. If it's not listed in Device Manager, go to Control Panel and select Add Hardware. Click next at the next screen. Let Windows search to see if it finds new hardware. If it doesn't, click next and select yes. Click next and scroll to the bottom of the list and highlight Add New Hardware. At this point, let Windows search again. If it doesn't find New Hardware, click next, and scroll to SCSI and RAID Controllers. Next again, scroll to Promise and click Have Disk. Browse to the floppy and go to the WinXP folder and select the driver. Next to install.

I'm not sure if you have seen this, but there is a great WinXP install guide on the ABXZone Forum Here (http://www.abxzone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=41). It should be the 6th "Sticky post. Not sure if you need it or not but it's a great guide.

I hope that helps...

[Josb]

Well, tried device manager driver update, uninstall and install, new hardware wizard, newest driver from download, driver from CD that came with the MB and no luck. Even when I'm pointing right to the XP driver folder, get the message "can't find driver to install" (or words to that effect. Drivers have always been a pain for me, this is no exception.

To answer your other question, yes the Promise controller has been enabled in the BIOS and set to IDE. And yes, it shows up in Device Manager with the dreaded yellow icon.

Still get the message "No device is found, bios is not installed" on the promise controller during boot up.

Sigh........

[Josb]

OK, here's what's going on now. Drivers install, but at the end of the installation, I get a message " there was a problem installing this hardware. This device cannot start (code 10)"

I also got the message "drivers not digitally signed by MS" at the beginning of the installation.

[Jim]

If you're not hooking anything up to the Promise controller, just using the IDE connectors, disable the Promise in the bios. You won't get the no bios warning anymore. I'm just using the Sata connector for my Raptor and IDE for my optical drives. You won't be able to install the raid version of the IAAs either, because you don't need them. :)

[Josb]

Promise now disabled in BIOS and, of course you're right, the message disappeared during boot up.

Not the end of the world for me. Just running the 80gb SE for now, when I can afford a couple Raptors to RAID, I'll have to reinstall XP anyway.

I am baffled though. If the Promise (and Intel I guess) RAID drivers are suppose to be installed during the XP installation, how is one meant to ever do an update to the driver version w/o reinstalling XP?

Thanks again guys, your help is appreciated, as I don't care to re-invent the wheel.

[Josb]

Set timings to 2-2-2-5-8 and XP faltered on boot up.

So here's what I wound up with;

ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe
BIOS v1010
P4 2.8 800 FSB
Alpha Pal8942 & Shin Etsu & Delta 47 CFM
OCZ PC3500 ELDC 2x512, 2-2-3-5-8 at 2.75 volts (2-3-3-6-8 works fine at 2.65 volts)
CPU at stock volt and speed
HT enabled, PM on auto, PAM enabled, Legacy USB disabled.
ATI 9600 Pro
Antec True 480
LiteOn 52x32x52
WD 80gb SE - 4 partitions; programs, page file, documents, audio/BU.
Lian P61 with Smart II fans replacing the rear and 2 front. Blow hole fan is stock.

According to ASUS BIOS, MB temp is running at ambient and the CPU is running about 6 degrees F over ambient. System is quiet.

Very happy with the results of this set-up. Maybe get a couple Raptors by the end of the year (and I'll post for help when I screw that up!)

Thanks for all your help!:D

[Neil]

Originally posted by Mikki
Josb, welcome to BE :wave:


Can you tell us why you're more interested in CPU speed than memory timings? If you want better performance, timings rule...;)



Mikki

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030812/ddr500-01.html

????

[Mikki]

Neil, thanks for that link...that's very interesting. It's very possible that their results could have been a board-specific thing, but I couldn't say unless I tested it myself. Every test I've done and seen from others even on newer systems results in timings rule, but as this (http://www.bleedinedge.com/articles/curse_vs_cure/curse_vs_cure.html) article says, things change! :p;)

Thanks again...:)

[Neil]

Yeh pleasure is mine. A bit of a conflicting and confusing one when you are learning to oc!

[Mikki]

It sure is...get used to it! Hehe...:p

That's one of the things that keeps oc'ing exciting! :p If you really want to know what's best for your particular setup, just run the tests your self and see what makes the biggest difference...:)

[Neil]

Yeh LOL I have learnt that the hard way!! :mad: But some people are really helpful and do go out their way to assist, namely Hawk and Tony. They are legends! Ive gone from 15700 in 3D 02 to 18000 with their help!

Question 4 u M8, why you run a b not the c?

[Josb]

Ya, I appreciate that bit. But now that I've loaded all my apps on the machine, I'm nervous about crashing it in a failed OC attempt, corrupting some files and having to reload everything again. Fun may have it's price!

Or am I paranoid beginner?:eyepop:

Or to avoid that risk, do I boot to MemTest after changing the BIOS settings and see if it gets through MemTest first before booting to the HD?:scratch:

Thanks

[Hawk]

Originally posted by Josb
Ya, I appreciate that bit. But now that I've loaded all my apps on the machine, I'm nervous about crashing it in a failed OC attempt, corrupting some files and having to reload everything again. Fun may have it's price!

Or am I paranoid beginner?:eyepop:

Or to avoid that risk, do I boot to MemTest after changing the BIOS settings and see if it gets through MemTest first before booting to the HD?:scratch:

Thanks


Ocing should not corrupt the data on the drive. I would not worry about that. . . .

[Mikki]

Neil, three reasons:

1) I've been entirely too busy with BE to play with hardware :(

2) I just spent a couple months saving up for a monitor setup (see Graphics forum) and I'm totally flat broke :(

3) There isn't anything out there exciting enough to keep me from doing 1) and 2)....IMHO :rolleyes:

I will be upgrading soon to help the guys out with reviews...;)

[Croc]

Ya, I appreciate that bit. But now that I've loaded all my apps on the machine, I'm nervous about crashing it in a failed OC attempt, corrupting some files and having to reload everything again. Fun may have it's price!

I have the P4C800E and like the P4P800 before it, they are easy and very safe to overclock. If you have settings to high or out of whack they may freeze, reboot or lock-up. Usually a simple shut down and restart does it. If not, hold down the INSERT key while you hit the power button. Once that did not work and I simply turned off power to the board, waited and switched the power supply back on. INSERT trick then worked.:wave: