P4P800 is it the canterwood killer?

[Tony]

First impressions say it is ;) Thug's would LOVE this board as the bandwidth it produces is huge, and i know he just loves to tweak asus boards.

Im only in memtest at the mo but im seeing 2477MB/s at ddr400 stock 200fsb :eek: 2-6-2-2 with the other tweaks it offeres enabled .I will give a full rundown when i have some windows benches done but at 1:1 running stock fsb this board is faster than the Abit and the Aopen canterwood boards in the memory dept....more to come.

[ThugsRook]

Ooooo sounds nice :)

would be nice to have a really good 800fsb board setup before the 1mb chips come out :yummy:

gluck with it :wave:

[noah]

I have to admit that when I first saw ocworkbench's review with the Asus springdale besting the batch, I was skeptical - how could it be? But as I read through Hexus's review of the epox 8rda3+ this afternoon, I couldn't help but notice how much the P4P800 smoked everything insight.

The question is - why? And is this gap specific to Asus?

[noah]

Indeed, looking at the IS7 review (http://http://www.ocaddiction.com/reviews/mobos/abit_is7/) over at ocaddiction, it appears it is not faster than it's canterwood brother.

[Mikki]

So it's gotta come down to the bios, huh? Interesting....:scratch:

[Tony]

Well guys my first serious 3d run netted me this. :)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ad.leach/P4P800/3d-first-run.JPG

And i KNOW it will do more!!

[ErikaeanLogic]

hi guys:)

did I miss something? how could this board be a "Canterwood killer?" doesn't i875 have memory bus optimization which 865PE lacks?

sorry, just a little clueless here:confused:

btw, bigtoe, what the heck are you using for a vid-card?? peltiered 9800 w/frozen P4?:yummy:



PS. just read that 8rda3+ review and it looks to me (from every other 865 vs. 875 review I've read) that they've mixed up the score labeling! thoughts?

[ThugsRook]

:eek: WoW :eek:

whats the system config on that?
is it a 533 chip @ 800fsb?

20k, my gad :rock:

[Radelon]

I think that bench was done with his 2.6C........... Anyone wanna lend me a Radeon 9700 or 9800 Pro and I'll show you what a P4 Mobile can do at 258fsb air cooled.

[Mikki]

20K! :eyepop: :eek2: :rock: :beer: :!:

[Tony]

details:
2.6C @276fsb 1.625V(bios) ram TwinMOS pc3200 running 2-7-3-2 at ddr442.Radeon 9700pro aircooled at 418/337.5.

The card was previously owned by PiLsY and is capable on a cold day of 450/355 so there is more to come.

Im testing 277fsb 2-6-3-2 at the mo so i may be pushing a little closer to 21k.

[Radelon]

Lemme borrow that card bigtoe........hehe

[prometheus]

bigtoe is just trying to catch up with my AIR cooling results :beat:

http://home.rochester.rr.com/hessfink/21101.jpg

Compare link at http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6486349

Have a MSI 875p NEO FIS2R in the toaster right now with my sights on 22,000 on air cooling. If we don't get there we'll just flash 1.3 BIOS and watch it die :D

[ErikaeanLogic]

impressive, Prometheus:)! what speed is your mem running at? g'luck with 22K;). . .

guys, I'm still a little confused about how this Springdale board could edge out the Canterwoods, can you help me? I'm having a tough time accepting it. . .

[prometheus]

Springdale and Canterwood ARE the same chipset - except that Springdale either does not have PAT - or more likely it's turned off - and Springdale does not support ECC memory. Let's say, just for the sake of supposing, that Canterwood's PAT is hard in silicon. Also realize that as a primary development partner of Intel, Asus may have had quite a large hand in developng the code for PAT.

Let's say, knowing the PAT code, you figured you could implement the same thing in software BIOS - and even better - because you had a lot of Programming skills with memory controllers and register optimization. This could be exactly what happened with the Asus 865. If it is close, and Canterwood PAT is hard in the chip, it would also explain why the same optimizations have NOT been applied to Canterwood by Asus, and possibly cannot be applied to Canterwood.

[ErikaeanLogic]

Originally posted by prometheus
Springdale and Canterwood ARE the same chipset - except that Springdale either does not have PAT - or more likely it's turned off - and Springdale does not support ECC memory. Let's say, just for the sake of supposing, that Canterwood's PAT is hard in silicon. Also realize that as a primary development partner of Intel, Asus may have had quite a large hand in developng the code for PAT.

Let's say, knowing the PAT code, you figured you could implement the same thing in software BIOS - and even better - because you had a lot of Programming skills with memory controllers and register optimization. This could be exactly what happened with the Asus 865. If it is close, and Canterwood PAT is hard in the chip, it would also explain why the same optimizations have NOT been applied to Canterwood by Asus.

ah, ok. so what you're suggesting, then, is that Asus sandbagged us on the Canterwood, eh;)? perhaps a better comparison would be the P4P800 and the IC7?

[SupermanCK]

but but...where is the fact...
no one knows how exactly the P4P800 beats out all other springdale chipset mobo and canterwoods...
Intel's own springdale board can't get even close to it's canterwood counterparts...
Abits' is the same...
weird
:wack:

[ThugsRook]

didnt the aopen granite bay show the same type of awesome results over its counterparts?

could it be that the chip is actually dropping code allowing it to run faster? (kinda like what nvidia vid drivers do)

[prometheus]

The question was "Help me understand how it would be possible for Springdale to beat Canterwood?" I did not say this is the way it is or the answer, I said this is one way it could be possible.

Anything we say is speculative right now, but evidence so far - and Asus' comments - support a 'soft' optimization that would require intimate knowledge of Springdale/Canterwood registers. This IS priviledged info since Intel has locked registers in these chipsets.

[Mysterio]

In any case.. with the P4P800 ASUS almost seems to be canabalizing their own Canterwood board sales.

Maybe they listened to some of the critisizm on the P4C800 series and decided to do it right with their P4P800 which is supposed to be more for the meanstream ? (ICH5R)
Doesn`t make THAT much sense since ICH5R is more expensive than the non R on the P4C800 and the springdale is the cheaper board.

That Business 2001 benchmark on Hexus is still strange btw.
There the P4P800 is the slowest of all the boards.
Tune one thing, break another ?

[Tony]

They have clearly tweaked this board for where it matters for the enthusiast..games and overclocking.If you want it for business thats what the P4C800 is for.

My review is complete and will be posted soon

[kONGO]

I actually think that Asus has held the tweaks on the P4C800 back as much as possible. The reason is market potential and market needs.

The i875P is a workstation chipset. Customers wanting to buy a workstation motherboard want stability, they don't want an overly optimized BIOS with all the risks that come with it (data corruption being the most evident).
You can bet that Intel has validated the i875P chipset like there's no tomorrow, just to be able to market it as a workstation chipset. To keep that validity, motherboard makers have to stay within certain bounds to keep the whole system at a certain level of stability.

The i865 on the other hand isn't geared towards workstations at all, it's the new i845 basically. So Asus, not risking to leave workstation customers behind, can tweak the motherboard to high heaven. They will of course not tweak it to the point of data corruption, but the nature of the enthusiast and consumer market is that the closer to the Bleedin' Edge the better (pun very much intended).

Also, PAT is very hard to mimic in software I'd think, since it's a low-latency bypass of certain latency bottlenecks in the MCH. You can probably do a whole lot with register optimization, but I think it will be hard to get the same performance benefits.
One way to check would be to plonk the P4P800 BIOS in a P4C800 motherboard and do some benching. I know cross-motherboard flashes have been tried before with Asus products (I think that was with the P4S333/533, but I'm not sure). The nature of the chipsets would probably make this feasible. The trouble would be keeping the PAT enabled with the P4P800 BIOS.

-kONGO

[Sweeper]

Thanks BT...

BTW, I was wondering where you and Prom had been hanging out. I like this forum.

Thanks for your great review. It makes me feel a lot better about my purchase... :)

My new P4P800 should arrive next Tuesday, however, I still only have a 2.4b... and that will have to do for now.

[Scoundrel]

Hi guys :wave:

What kind of sandra scores can one expect with a Canterwood or Springdale chipset with DDR 3500 and a 2.53B cpu running stock at FSB 133 ? memory at 1:1 and all that :yummy:

Will it still beat PC1066 RDRAM ?
I'm planning on getting a P4P800 or a IC7 to replace my trusty P4T533-C but I'm keeping my CPU until I can afford a P4 2.8C.

[ThugsRook]

your scores will be roughly the same as a granite bay~

my scores....

> Scisoft Sandra Memory < buffered --- unbuffered (bigtoe settings)

133fsb Cas22251 = 3424/3412 --- 1867/1938
150fsb Cas22251 = 3836/3825 --- 2061/2123
167fsb Cas22251 = 4278/4263 --- 2299/2368
179fsb Cas22261 = 4482/4469 --- 2360/2445

HTH :)


<EDIT> wow, boy was i wrong :wack:

P4P800:
179fsb Cas2226 = 4564/4260 --- 2993/2838

[JeffPH]

Nice benches guys, Great site btw.

[Skully]

Thanks bigtoe, great info! I'm thinking about getting the Asus P4P800! :)

[Ardy]

Well now I have 2 Springdale boards coming. :scratch:

MSI NEO2-FIS2R which I've read has all kinds of bio problems:smash:

So I just ordered the P4p800 deluxe for $148 del. from accupc.com:p

Going to be a busy week:wack:

[Sweeper]

Ardy... It may be a busy week for you... but let's face it... it's going to be a fun week. The challenge!! :cool:

[Ardy]

Originally posted by Sweeper
Ardy... It may be a busy week for you... but let's face it... it's going to be a fun week. The challenge!! :cool:

Yep,I might just sell the MSI before I even open it if the Asus works as planned.My last 3 boards have been Asus and I have been happy with them.It was a difficult decision this time between the P4P800 and the IC7 but with the ram I have (Corsair 3200LL) the P4P800 seems to marry well.All I'm hoping for is 270fsb stable.:D

Thanks for the reviews BT and Prometheus and to Mikki for all the work put into this site!:beer: