What's a good drive for backing-up a raid?

[Snafu]

Livin' on the edge too long and I gotta get another drive to back-up the raid. Some of my thoughts are below but I want to know what you got, what you like and any drives I should avoid (I heard about IBM's Deathstar so I'll be avoiding that one for sure). Recommendations please :bow: .

Would love to use the bigger Raptor (74GB) just because 10K is cool :cool: . I do not have another SATA power cable and think I can use a normal power connection.

I probably could use just a regular PATA (7200rpm) drive and partition it (part for the raid back-up and part for regular storage). Looking at the Hitachi 7K250 but not sure if it has fluid bearings like its bigger bro (7K400) :scratch: .

Thanks :thumbs:

[pointreyes]

Well, I'm using a Maxtor 250GB Maxline II for my backup drive of my RAID 5 configuration. I'm also using this little gem of utility to make backups in a way in which it even retains up to 3 (came be higher if needed I believe) copies of a file if it has changed from the last time the schedule backup was done.

http://www.maxoutput.com/FileBack/

[Snafu]

Thanks for the advice. Is the Maxline a PATA and 7200rpm drive?

FileBack looks like a good program to use. I bought Acronis True Image 7 (build 613) to do the back up (recommended in an earlier post). But I bought before realising that another hard drive was required :lol: . Hence this post.

Raid 5 :yikes: . Must read/write like stink.

[pointreyes]

Raid 5 :yikes: . Must read/write like stink.

See attached image. :cool:

I have a 133Mhz 64-bit PCI-X SATA RAID controller on a dual Xeon system with a 133Mhz 64-bit PCI-X slot to accomodate that controller that has 4 x 120GB SATA drives with a hot global spare. This setup just happens to also have all the drives in hot swappable trays so I can replace a drive when it dies without ever having to turn off the 'puter. I have had a drive die with no data lose and was able to replace drive with the 'puter left on.

http://www.serverwatch.com/hreviews/article.php/3346771

Now, what was that about read/write like stink? :p :)

The Maxline II is a SATA drive that is running on the ICH5R on one of my Canterwood boards.

In case you are getting confused with what I have, click on the Diagram link I have provided in my sig. :)

[Snafu]

Thanks. Very cool set-up for sure :thumb: . The read/write scores are great. I recall my Raid 0 raptors top out at the 64-128MB range (peak read/write) while your's stay at peak read/write above the 64/128MB range. Very cool.

I had read about running multi-raid with the Raptors (MaxPC) and they found that Raid with 4 drives (Raid 4?) saturate the PCI's 133 bus such that it did not perform as well as a Raid with 3 drives. I think this could be due to the Raptors speed and other "slower" drives would not saturate the bus as much and the raid could run faster with more drives.

Will check your sig for the Maxline set-up ( :shhh: getting ready for a meeting and gotta fly).
:beer:

[pointreyes]

I had read about running multi-raid with the Raptors (MaxPC) and they found that Raid with 4 drives (Raid 4?) saturate the PCI's 133 bus such that it did not perform as well as a Raid with 3 drives. I think this could be due to the Raptors speed and other "slower" drives would not saturate the bus as much and the raid could run faster with more drives.
:beer:

That's why I stressed that I'm using an 133Mhz 64-bit PCI-X controller in a 133Mhz 64-bit PCI-X slot. :) This ain't the 133 Meg/sec bus, it's a 1,056 Meg/sec bus. :cool: I could hook up 8 raptors to this controller and it would sing. :p :chit: However, $200 x 8 = $1,600. I would rather spend that on an Opteron. :p

And this controller is much different from other controllers, I can actually have multi-RAID configurations on the same drives! I can have 8 Raptors on this controller and make them RAID 5 on one set of partitions on the drives, then use RAID 1 on the same exact drives using different partitions, and then even use RAID 0 on the same exact drives using other partitions.

[Snafu]

I didn`t catch that :o . Very cool raid indeed :rock: .

[Freddy]

Hello Snafu,

the 74GB Raptor would of course be an excellent choice (I happen to have 2 in RAID0 ;) ), but it is a shame to use it just as a backup device.
I chose the Hitachi 7K250, because it is a lot bigger than the Raptor and it is one of the fastest 7200rpm drives. I am using it partly as a backup and partly for things like video editing. It exists as PATA as well as SATA and indeed, you can use a normal power connector in both cases. It also features "Fluid Dynamic Bearings" and it is absolutely quiet! Highly recommended, but do not choose a model with one platter (40GB/80GB), because they are not as fast as the two and three platter models!

Freddy

[Snafu]

Thanks man for the input. I agree it would be a waste to not use the bigger Raptor in raid (I have its little brothers in raid 0).

Aside from the drives being cool there is the potential to upgrade at a later date to add a second raid or replace the other raid ;) (if my other half only knew my plans and $ for upgrades :shhh: :lol: ).

With the Hitachi (or other drives) which is “better” PATA or SATA?

Will have to compare the Maxtor to Hitachi (performance and $).

P.S. is this Freddy from Elm St. :scratch: :lol: .

[Freddy]

That Raptor upgrade potential certainly sounds promising! ;)
About PATA vs. SATA: since you already have two SATA drives attached to the (I assume) ICH5R (not the Promise controller), the best way to go is to add a PATA drive to use it on the Primary UDMA channel. There is really no performance difference between PATA and SATA at the moment.
To compare the performance of both the Hitachi and the Maxtor to your 36GB Raptor, look here: www.storagereview.com/articles/200310/20031007HDS722525VLSA80_1.html
As you can see, the Hitachi almost always gets to the second place, right after the Raptor and sometimes it is even just as fast!

[Snafu]

Unfortunately I have them on the promise controller (noob mistake). Now I know better and once I back up the raid I plan to switch over to the ICH5 controller.
Thanks for the link. This looks like a good one to have handy.
Thanks! :thumbs:

[Snafu]

So many flavors of Hitachi 7K250s: 80GB, 120GB, 160GB, 250GB and 400GB. Aside from capacity they all look the same (7200rpm, 8MB cache, SATA). Must only differ by the number of platters/heads inside.
Strange that they would use the same model number.

[Snafu]

Thanks for all the feed back. :thumbs:

I ended up picking up a WD Caviar SATA 200GB drive at a decent price. First time I bought one on the net. I thought it was a boxed drive and it came only in the anti-static pouch ( :irk: ). No cables. No instructions. No disks. Nada. :bonk: :smash:

So my questions are basically around how do I install the drive? Maybe I should just send it back? I have extra sata cables, IDE cables, SATA power connection (plugs into Molex power supply) that came with the board but not which ones to use.

Which power and data cables should I use? I suspect I need to use the SATA cables but thought I would check first.

Thanks folks.

[malinois1]

Thanks for all the feed back. :thumbs:

I ended up picking up a WD Caviar SATA 200GB drive at a decent price. First time I bought one on the net. I thought it was a boxed drive and it came only in the anti-static pouch ( :irk: ). No cables. No instructions. No disks. Nada. :bonk: :smash:

So my questions are basically around how do I install the drive? Maybe I should just send it back? I have extra sata cables, IDE cables, SATA power connection (plugs into Molex power supply) that came with the board but not which ones to use.

Which power and data cables should I use? I suspect I need to use the SATA cables but thought I would check first.

Thanks folks.

You need the SATA cable and Power cable. On my Hitachi I have the option to use molex or SATA power...either one will do ;) No don't send it back you have all the supplies you need. Plus a boxed one with all the cables and such will cost more.

[Snafu]

Cool. Thanks.

Right now I have the Raid on the promise controller. The intent of the WD drive is to back up the raid so I can switch it to the Intel controller. So if I add the WD SATA as a back-up drive it will be hooked up to teh Intel controller. Now I am wondering how I can switch the raid to the Intel controller and switch the WD back-up drive to the promise controller.

???

[Snafu]

Any ideas on how I can back-up the raid (on promise) with the new SATA drive (on Intel) and then switch the raid to the intel controller and the back-up drive to the promise controller?

Or am I snafu'd on switching the raid to the Intel controller?
:scratch: :help:

[dwcoleman]

What OS?

[Snafu]

WinXP Pro SP1 (need to get SP2 on disk).
Thanks for any thoughts and help.

[Snafu]

Would this work :scratch:
- connect the WD SATA drive to Intel SATA controller
- set it up (partition or no partition, hmmm?)
- back-up the raid drives (using Acronis True Image)
- disconnect the WD SATA drive from the Intel controller
- disconnect the Raid drives from the Promise controller
- connect the Raid drives to the Intel controller
- set-up the Raid drives
- connect the WD SATA drive to the Promise controller
- set up the WD drive
- restore back-up of the raid drives from WD SATA to the Raid drives

I am not sure if the WD drive will retain the back-up once it is connected to the Promise controller or if all data will be lost.

My prime goal is not to lose the data on the raid drives. I am sure there is a way but I have yet to figure it out.

Anyone have experiences with this?

Thanks for all your :help:

[Snafu]

What no Raid guru's out there? :scratch:

[Snafu]

Okay gonna try it and see if it'll work or if I'm in for a reinstall.

[Snafu]

Thought this might be somewhat useful for those backing up thier raid drives using Acronis Ture Image.

After a bit of fumbling I installed the back-up drive (WD Caviar sata 200GB). Had trouble booting at first. The bios/WinXp automatically changed the boot drive to the new drive - since it was blank there was nothing to boot with :smash: .

Ran diskmgmt.msc to partition and format the drive. Don't do this if you are running Acronis TI.
When I went to create a disk clone, Acronis TI would not accept the new drive/partitions and I had to repeat the partitioning and formatting using Acronis TI. Acronis TI created a partition (& formatted) the exact same size as the drive to be cloned. It did nothing with the rest of the drive.

I ran the disk clone in Acronis TI without trouble to back-up the raid drives. The number of bytes used however is not exactly the same and I wonder if it is an exact copy - i.e., bootable :scratch: .

For the rest of teh new drive I ran diskmgmt.msc to format the remaining bits. I plan to use this for bulk storage and to dstore images of the raid drives.

So far so good.

Next I will need to switch the raid drives off of the Promise controller to the Intel controller (and vice versa for the back-up drive).

[Snafu]

:help: please with Acronis True Image

I ran both the "disk clone" and an image of the raid.

I plan to move the raid drives off the promise controller to the intel controller at the same time as I move the back-up drive (with clone and image) off the intel controller to the promise controller.

How should I restore the raid drives? Should I use the clone or the image or is running Acronis a bit intuitive and there's no worries?

I was also wondering if I run "disk clone" whether Acronis would always maintain a copy - in essence I would have Raid 0+1. I was not too sure if Acronis was automatically maintaining the clone or if I need to run the clone again whenever I make changes.

Thanks for the input.