PDA

View Full Version : Intel warns vendors not to overclock 865 chipsets



LastRide
06-13-2003, 02:55 PM
:D Read it Here (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9988)

Intel warns vendors not to overclock 865 chipsets

Takes firm stance on PAT Canterwood lookalikes


By Mike Magee: Friday 13 June 2003, 07:52

CHIP FIRM INTEL warned that system manufacturers and users that attempt to overclock 865 chipsets using PAT (performance acceleration technology) may end up with systems that are not under warranty.
The stern warning sends out a clear challenge from Intel to motherboard makers including Asus, Epox, Abit and others that introducing a BIOS to enable elements of 875 technology in 865 chipsets is meeting strong disapproval from the chip giant.

(See BIOS update will convert Intel 865 boards to Canterwood 875 and Intel's PAT more like a turbot than a turbo.)

Intel is also warning users from buying such products.

A representative from Intel in Santa Clara said: "Intel does not condone over-clocking, and users and/or system manufacturers that employ over-clocking may void their Intel chipset warrantees and subsequently, any failures associated to an over-clocked Intel chipset may be the sole responsibility of the user or system manufacturer".

He continued: "With the 875P chipset, the internal signals, including PAT capabilities, are being run as designed, tested and validated by Intel, and this results in a very robust platform across silicon & board skew and all specified temperature ranges".

The representative also went into details of how Intel positioned PAT. He said it offered a "robust way" to implement high performance features without compromising the integrity of Intel chipset and processor based platforms.

PAT, he said, includes performance enhancements in the 875P chipset design, as well as making sure that every 875P chipset that ships from Intel is fully tested and validated to work as designed over the entire specified operating range, which includes the provisions for silicon skew, temperature & motherboard skew.

But, he said: "So-called 'PAT implementations' provided by a group of vendors on their platforms using Intel 865PE chipsets" do not conform to those standards set by his firm.

"This test and validation criteria is not conducted by Intel for the 865PE chipset and the platform quality and reliability concerning these PAT implementations should be called into question".

He said: "Intel has procured some of these 865PE chipset-based motherboard products that are claiming to enable PAT, and our initial observations indicate these platforms exhibit instability and in some cases actual failure".

That, he added is because the 865PE chipsets are being "tricked" into a non specified and non validated operating mode.

"In the cases that Intel has observed, certain internal data paths and signals are being run at up to 50% above their specified operating range, which can lead to external interface marginality - this is commonly referred to as "over-clocking" .

He adds: "To be clear, the performance increase achieved by these platforms is the result of over-clocking and other non-compliant usage, and users of these platforms are not receiving the benefits of 875P chipset-based platforms with PAT functionality".

To us, this seems the clearest possible warning that Intel is set on taking on the motherboard makers who will offer the BIOS. µ

ThugsRook
06-13-2003, 02:58 PM
thats ok by me cause my board is underclocked ;)

interesting....

LastRide
06-13-2003, 03:01 PM
Yeah,mine too :look: ..LOL


Originally posted by ThugsRook
thats ok by me cause my board is underclocked ;)

interesting....

Duvie
06-13-2003, 06:45 PM
I think it looks like a black eye in the marketing dept. when these 865 mobos are outdoing the more expensive 875 chips...I think they wanted a slight edge for the more expensive board...

RotorHead
06-14-2003, 01:53 AM
Sounds like Chipzilla is getting ready to lock the back door....:look:

I would not be suprized...:rolleyes:

RH

ThugsRook
06-14-2003, 05:10 AM
why do they care!?

David
06-14-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by ThugsRook
why do they care!? Probably because they don't want folks buying cheaper 865 based motherboards, and then getting 875 performance out of them! :)

-David-

Claude
06-14-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by David
Probably because they don't want folks buying cheaper 865 based motherboards, and then getting 875 performance out of them! :)

-David-

Too late I allready got mine. hahahaha

Tony
06-14-2003, 05:08 PM
Here is something to think about.

I heard a short while ago it may be possible to overclock the 875/865 chipset independant to the memory and cpu.This to me is what PAT really is.I feel its not a shortened path but a way to overclock the chipset and nothing more.


"In the cases that Intel has observed, certain internal data paths and signals are being run at up to 50% above their specified operating range, which can lead to external interface marginality - this is commonly referred to as "over-clocking" .

I do know some manufacturers are looking at this as another user tweak, with say a 25% to 75% overclock available.Abit have done it very agressively with the IS7 and the latest beta bios files.

I just wish we had a way of tweaking registers..there must be software out there that see's thru intels little firewall.

Jim
06-16-2003, 09:23 PM
Hard to believe Intel couldn't have forseen this "issue". I'm sometimes a little skeptical. Such as: why would anyone buy an AMD solution when you can get an 865 mobo that performs like or better than an 875 for about $100. Whoops!

pointreyes
06-17-2003, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by ProfessorFate
Hard to believe Intel couldn't have forseen this "issue". I'm sometimes a little skeptical. Such as: why would anyone buy an AMD solution when you can get an 865 mobo that performs like or better than an 875 for about $100. Whoops!

Unfortunately you have a rather subjective skeptism. :( There are reasons for using different pieces of hardware and that is based on what is the most appropriate hardware for the task at hand. If you are purely focused on gaming then yes the Springdale makes sense. If you are thinking the Springdale for office work then again you are correct. However, if you are thinking for a low end server-you are incorrect. And there are places where an AMD solution really does make sense. Since this is an Intel forum I see no reason to go into that though.

Personally, I'm happy with my 875-but it is a low-end server and hence it is not oc'ed. The performance I get with my board without oc'ing is great. I do have a higher trust in my Canterwood than I would a Springdale due to the chipset design being built for high performance desktops/low-end servers. But then again I'm evaluting my need for using a Canterwood differently from your view of why a Springdale is all a person needs. I however do not like the way Intel has marketed the Canterwood and the motherboard manufacturers did not help ease the confusion between the two chipsets either.

Jim
06-17-2003, 05:29 PM
However, if you are thinking for a low end server-you are incorrect. And there are places where an AMD solution really does make sense. Since this is an Intel forum I see no reason to go into that though.

My point is AMD is not going to reach a point where the company is profitable selling XP1700s for $50. I just think if a person wanted a comp for any reason that would do 3000MHz they might get an 865 board and a P4 2.4C for less than $300. Obviously, you can get a K7S5A and an XP 1700 for less than $100 and it's a bargain but again if AMD continues to lose money, Chipzilla will have the market all to themselves. I don't think Intel cares much anymore about the low end market, but rather dominating the retail market.
And personally, I have an Abit 875 mobo. :wave:

pointreyes
06-18-2003, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by ProfessorFate
I don't think Intel cares much anymore about the low end market, but rather dominating the retail market.

I'm not so sure that AMD is either. :) http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=nforce3

The Athlon line is near it's end with what AMD can do with it. As far as I can tell, I think AMD is moving on to the 64-bit platform which happens to be my biggest complaint with Intel. I really wish that Intel would have provided some type of 64-bit PCI bus solution on the Canterwood. Listen to the people that are using U320 SCSI and they are having a hard time with bottlenecks on the 32-bit PCI bus on the Intel boards. :( The Canterwood will be the last 32-bit board I will purchase from Intel. We only get the ICH5 for 264 Meg/sec throughput. Soon my old AMD76x chipset board will be able to handle controllers (thanks to PCI-X SCSI and EIDE) that can work up to 524 Meg/sec. I wish there was a third company that would merge the intelligence of AMD and Intel into a real consumer board. Dream, just a dream. :) Oh well, guess I will wait and see what PCI Express will deliver, but I sure hope that we are moving on to 64-bit by that time. :)

Cogar
06-26-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by ProfessorFate
My point is AMD is not going to reach a point where the company is profitable selling XP1700s for $50. I just think if a person wanted a comp for any reason that would do 3000MHz they might get an 865 board and a P4 2.4C for less than $300. Obviously, you can get a K7S5A and an XP 1700 for less than $100 and it's a bargain but again if AMD continues to lose money, Chipzilla will have the market all to themselves. I don't think Intel cares much anymore about the low end market, but rather dominating the retail market.
And personally, I have an Abit 875 mobo. :wave:
That is a good point. Things have changed for AMD since the time they introduced the Athlon Thunderbird. Now that was a competitive chip. My primary interest in AMD these days (no offense intended pointreyes ;) ) is when I am trying to economize on a computer build and I can save $100 by going to a lower-end Athlon XP instead of a P4. It is indeed time for AMD to move on to a new level of technology--and the sooner the better IMO.

Regarding the topic at hand, Intel is just ticked off that their somewhat overpriced 875 chipset is not selling that well anymore. Still, by reading the posts, I am guessing that no one here is feeling all that intimidated by Intel's latest threats. :D

pointreyes
06-26-2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Cogar
(no offense intended pointreyes ;) )

No worries, bud. I do agree with ProfessorFate's response to me because the objective side of the discussion was given. And welcome to the board. I think I have been rather none fan boy with AMD but I think sometimes people takes a person that is trying to discuss AMD thinks they are fan boys, it does get annoying sometimes because I'm just trying to discuss and hopefully remove myths on both sides of the fence between Intel and AMD. I like stating the facts with what I see and hear. I have two Barton systems for a reason-it ain't the cost-it's the performance in conjunction with the ability to use use software that is limited by the Canterwood/Springdale line. With the Canterwood you have only Windows XP and w2k3. And if you are not using the ICH5R, you can use Linux (yes, you can use other OSes but you normally have to disabled HT and when you are a multi-OS user that option is not exactly the best to have). With one of my Barton systems, I'm using w2k Advanced Server and Linux Slackware. I'm simply not impressed with the P4 non-HT procs when it comes to my line of work so the Bartons are a very good middle ground for me.

Hehe, I'm not to concerned over Intel's crying because I do have a Canterwood-so, I have nothing to be concerned over. :p

roystarman
06-26-2003, 11:06 AM
How long before INTEL quits selling 865 chipsets? If they continue to lose potential profit on every 865 that was formerly an 875, and the market for P4C seems to be huge, the obvious solution is to quit makng the 865, perhaps lower the cost of the 875 a few dollars to make it a little more palatable and then work on making the 865 trully PAT disabled before releasing it again (if ever). It seems that almost all high end users are going to P4Cs so the demand will be there for the foreseeable future. So unitl Tiawan can compete with a faster or better product INTEL can call the shots on 865 and 875 production.

Duvie
06-26-2003, 04:12 PM
I think it is more likely Intel will start laying down the line and we may start seeing bios revisions that may start disabling stuff....INtel holds all the chips (sorry for the pun) and the rest will get in line...

remember selling i865 cuts into their i875 profits as well...Also remember if they make it more of a hack or a non-default bios setting it is unlikely the average consumer will know about it....